Episode 10: The Psychology of Singing (with Kelly Meashey, MT-BC, MMT, FAMI, AVPT, LCAT)
In this insightful episode, we dive into the powerful intersection of voice, emotion, and healing with Kelly Meashey—a trained music therapist, BMGIM (the Bonny Method of Guided Imagery and Music) Fellow, and vocal psychotherapist. Kelly shares her unique perspective on how singing goes far beyond technique or performance—exploring how the voice can be a gateway to deeper emotional expression, personal transformation, and even trauma healing. Whether you're a singer, music therapist, or someone simply curious about the connection between music and mind, this episode offers a fascinating look at the human voice as a tool for connection, self-discovery, and growth. Listen now to discover how singing can truly be a form of therapy—and what it means to find your voice in every sense of the word.
About Kelly Meashey
Kelly has been a practicing board certified music therapist since 1982. She completed her bachelors degree and master’s degree in music therapy at Temple University. Upon receiving her master’s degree, she went on to complete training in GIM with Dr Ken Bruscia and Austin Vocal Psychotherapy with Dr Diane Austin. In the first 18 years of clinical practice, she contracted her music therapy services with various facilities and had the opportunity to work with individuals with developmental disabilities, traumatic brain injury, dementia, visual and auditory impairment, psychosis, and learning disabilities.
Kelly opened her private music psychotherapy practice in 2000 combining her various trainings and experience. She has an expertise in in working with those with complex trauma and PTSD as well as depression and anxiety. She also has extensive experience in depth psychology.
As well as practicing music therapy, Kelly maintained a professional jazz/pop singing career from 1981 to 2021. She is currently pursuing her doctorate in music therapy at Temple University.
Episode Resources
Website - kellymeashey.com
Training - Diane Austin Vocal Psychotherapy
Training - Guided Imagery and Music
Resource - Embodied Voicework
Transcript
This transcript was computer generated and might contain errors.
Marisa: Hello everybody and welcome to Musical Mindspace. If you’re new here, thanks for joining us today for the first time. If you’re an avid listener, welcome back. We appreciate the support.
The last few episodes of this podcast have been centered mostly on music psychotherapy. We talked about the psychology of music elements with Dr Z. We heard from Dr Nicki about her experiences in guided imagery in music. We also had an insightful conversation with Dr Aiden about music- centered music therapy. And in our latest episode, we dove into trauma informed music therapy with Lindsy Burns.
We explored many musical topics along the way, but one topic we haven’t shared yet is singing and the power of the voice. Today’s guest is Kelly Meashey.
Kelly has been a practicing board certified music therapist since 1982. She completed her bachelors degree and master’s degree in music therapy at Temple University. Upon receiving her master’s degree, she went on to complete training in GIM with Dr Ken Bruscia and Austin Vocal Psychotherapy with Dr Diane Austin. In the first 18 years of clinical practice, she contracted her music therapy services with various facilities and had the opportunity to work with individuals with developmental disabilities, traumatic brain injury, dementia, visual and auditory impairment, psychosis, and learning disabilities.
Kelly opened her private music psychotherapy practice in 2000 combining her various trainings and experience. She has an expertise in working with those with complex trauma and PTSD as well as depression and anxiety. She also has extensive experience in depth psychology.
As well as practicing music therapy, Kelly maintained a professional jazz/pop singing career from 1981 to 2021. She is currently pursuing her doctorate in music therapy at Temple University.
I met Kelly while taking classes at Temple and I’m so grateful that we crossed paths and have kept in touch over the last few years. As soon as I met her, I could feel her passion for the field and how much she genuinely cares for everyone around her.
I’m excited to hear more about her personal and clinical experiences with voice in addition to her process writing a music therapy book - The Use of Voice in Music Therapy. For those of you interested in purchasing this book, we will be sharing a link on our blog post for the episode along with other resources mentioned in our conversation.
Singing gives us the power to create, to process, to heal. To discover who we are and share it with others. I’m looking forward to hearing from Kelly as a both a music therapist and trained vocal psychotherapist and diving deep into the power of the voice.
This is what’s on our Mindspace today - this is episode 10. The psychology of singing.
Hi everyone. Welcome back. I'm so excited about this episode today to talk to someone that I just always enjoy being with and always enjoy talking with. Kelly, thank you for being here today.
Kelly: Oh, you're so welcome. Thank you for doing this wonderful project.
Marisa: It's truly been like such a journey to to talk to so many music therapists about especially their area of expertise. We'll talk a little bit about your book and your work as well, but I know this is going to be an episode that everybody's really going to enjoy - the content and and just hearing what you have to say and share and your experiences.
Kelly: Yeah. Wonderful. I feel pressure now.
*both laugh*
Marisa: No pressure. No pressure..
Kelly: I better sound intelligent.
Marisa: I love it.
Kelly: It's so funny when you say expert. It's like, oh my goodness. I guess, I guess that happened because I did it long, but boy, that's a hard word to connect to,
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: -especially for music therapists.
Marisa: Yeah. It brings some weight with it, doesn't it?
Kelly: It sure does. And and we need to , we need to remember we are trained. We're the experts.
Marisa: Yeah. Yeah. And you've had personally so much training in voice.
Kelly: Mhm.
Marisa: You've had a lot of of training in voice. Your book is about the use of voice in music therapy. And so when I was thinking about doing - we did the psychology of music elements with Dr. Zanders and we've done music in social health with Heather . She did her um thesis on on social health at the time. Um, and so when I was thinking about, you know, we need to do a voice episode, you were the the first person that that came to my mind.
Kelly: Wonderful. Yeah. I again, I don't - it's kind of a pleasure to not walk around in the world thinking you're an expert,
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: You know that it's it's kind of comfortable.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: So I'm just appreciative. I'm just grateful that you thought of me and and I hope what I share is helpful.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly:Yeah.
Marisa: Absolutely. I'm sure it will be. Um, but why don't we give everybody a little bit of of context about you? Can you tell us a little bit about um your background as a music therapist, your journey of becoming a music therapist and a singer and um all the vocal training that you've done?
Kelly: Yes. And again, it's sharing the history is…it's wild because…it's such a it's such a long, um, bit of experience and sometimes I think I'm making it up, but but then when I realize how tired I am, I know I'm not making it up.
Marisa: Yeah. You're like that actually that feels about right.
Kelly: Yeah, I did that. I don't know how it happened, but I got just absolutely fascinated with music therapy. And before I say this, I I feel the need to say that I I actually I burnt out twice along the journey. And I I really needed to recollect myself and figure out how to get balance. Um, the first time I thought, I thought I was quitting and then I got pulled back in. Um, I was I guess still doing music. I was, um, running music groups in a prek kindergarten.
Marisa: Mmm.
Kelly: Uh and then the second time I went back to school for my masters. So that really woke everything up. But uh, I had my bachelor's uh that was done in ' 82 under Ken Bruscia and Peterson Kins at Temple and then I worked 14 years with - well I was self-employed, like a private contractor - so many different populations - wonderful people with autism, people with intellectual disabilities, people with physical disabilities. I worked at Eastern State School and Hospital which was adolescence with psychosis. Um I worked with uh people with brain injuries from accidents and stroke and and from lightning. I worked with people with dementia. So, you know, I lasted so long with an undergrad because I was self-employed…
Marisa: Mmm.
Kelly: …and I kept working different places. Um and the upside of that is if you lose a day somewhere because they run out of funding…
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: …it’s way easier to pick up a day than a full-time job. So um so then I went back I got um I got pulled into GIM. I got fascinated with the power of GIM and at that time you could take two levels along with your master's degree because Bruscia had gotten it approved.
Marisa: Wow.
Kelly: Yeah.
Marisa: Wow. Oh, because he was running that program still at the time, right?
Kelly: Yes.
Marisa: Wow. I can only imagine.
Kelly: Dr. Bruscia, I need to say respectfully. Um, and so I finished my masters and I finished my GIM training and I finished - I got so fascinated with the power of music. Of course, this woke me up again that I realized, you know, I want to keep going with this and vocal psychotherapy…
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: …was and then I went into private practice and that I did about 21 years and really never would have thought of going back for my doctorate. I’m a clinician, you know…
Marisa: Mhm.
Kelly: It's just it's who I am. I’m not I'm not a researcher. I am an okay teacher. Um, the clinical work is, has such meaning for me.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: But something came up in, you know, a situation and I thought about it and I realized that I felt it was important that music therapy be taken more seriously.
Marisa: Mhm.
Kelly: One of the things we can all do is continue to educate ourselves.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: So I went back to school for my doctorate. One of the times when I went back for my masters, I was trying to go back to school for social work.
Marisa: Oh, wow.
Kelly: Yeah. I mean it's a hard field…
Marisa: Mhm.
Kelly: …clinically as you all know. And I was driving in my car listening to NPR and this story came on about a village in Eastern Europe somewhere, a small small village and every evening they get out in their from their houses and from the top to the bottom of the village they have an evening handbell song..
Marisa: Oh.
Kelly: And I got goosebumps…
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: And I said, "Oh no. I have to go back for music therapy.”
Marisa: That's my sign. That's the sign.
Kelly: Why? Why are you doing this to me?
*Both laugh*
So whenever I share my experience, I also share again that I burn out twice and tried to leave once and um…
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: ‘cause it's a hard field.
Marisa: It really is.
Kelly: Empathy and compassion to anyone who decides, you know, I just don't want to, like, I just don't want to get paid less than the effort I'm putting into it.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: And compassion to anyone who decides, you know what, I'm going to figure out how to do this because it's there was really nothing else I could do. So, I guess I was kind of stuck.
Marisa: It's so hard to say, like, there's so many posts right now that I see a lot of people, my husband's a musician too and he he feels that too, the weight of, you know, performing sometimes or just um holding the space, I guess is a better way to put it. Just holding the space musically in whatever context that is. We did an episode, I'm thinking of him because we did an episode about musical burnout together and he, you know, talked a little bit about his experiences with that and um we got a lot of music therapists that reached out like, "Hey, you know, I really I really felt that one."
Um, And there's a lot of posts lately. I connect to a lot of music therapists on Instagram and there's always posts about musical burnout or burnout as a music therapist and it's just really difficult to, it's so easy to say, well I guess I could you know, um, you know find a better position but they're not always available…
Kelly: I know.
Marisa: They’re just not for us.
Kelly: I know.
Marisa: Even still, you know, now these days it's still incredibly difficult. We're fighting for licensure right now in Texas. We're you know trying to get hopefully more opportunities, um, but it's, it's still so difficult. It's still it's it's really hard.
When did you start your vocal psychotherapy training? Was that you know doing your master's program as well?
Kelly: Yes. It was tail end of my masters.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: Yeah.
Marisa: Yeah. Wow. What does the training look like for that?
Kelly: Well, I did the alternative method. So that I had individual training, but I know from others that it's, I think was every week for two years for the for the live training in New York. And you do, you know, like in GIM, you learn the method, but you also do your personal work.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: And so the same as GIM, often times people don't complete the training, which is which is fine.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: Um but what they get out of it is so much personal growth.
Marisa: Yeah. So for those of for those of, um everybody listening right now, in music therapy, you know, we talk a lot about also music psychotherapy. And there's a difference in, you know, the scope of practice from what you do as a music therapist versus what you might do as a trained music psychotherapist. And in music psychotherapy, there's kind of, you know, a lot of different branches. One of them being vocal psychotherapy. Um there's a lot of different, well I think AMT right…
Kelly: Mhm.
Marisa: …is also considered vocal psychotherapy, Nordoff- Robbins is music psychotherapy. There's a lot of different kind of branches. GIM is a big one too.
Kelly: Mhm. Yes. Although you don't have to be a music therapist to train in GIM. So, but it, for music therapists, it's just an amazing, I mean, I was doing an all verbal session yesterday with the non-music therapist. She, she knows I'm a music therapist and ,um, she…the verbal that we were doing you know was a a an in-depth description of a medical procedure which was hard for her to share…
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: and I, I realized we were in a GIM travel together.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: I was asking the same questions, you know, when she would want to move away. I'd kind of, you know, like in GIM, you say, um, uh, what's underneath your feet? You know, like you help the person stay in the imagery. And, you know, I would ask another question about the experience, you know, is it uncomfortable? What's it feel like? You know, and that I got from GIM…
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: …verbal processing from GIM.
Marisa: So, it's kind of like a mix of all the experiences you've had together, this journey, so to say.
Kelly: Yeah. And, and I guess, you know, what I'm saying is, it's it's so amazing for music therapists even though it's not specific to…
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: …you can get so many tools. That's how the whole um my …I'm hoping, I'm hoping, I'm hoping my dissertation is (which I'm getting ready to start) um is on, so what happened as I went along with vocal psychotherapy and GIM is I started realizing you know we're on an imagery travel when we sing together…
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: …and so in, um, with just music therapy groups, I started using imagery and singing together. So, um I'm I like chant singing um because it's it's it's just a simple phrase that you repeat and you can really get entrained and ,you know, um um uh…cortex can shut down and as as the body gets more and more relaxed body believes what you're singing about.
Marisa: Mhm.
Kelly: It's just simple words rather than the head saying you know feel better the body feels better and then the words are saying like I don't know “I am light” and…
Marisa: Mhm.
Kelly: what a phrase, like it's just so “no I'm not, no I'm not”, but…
Marisa: Mhm.
Kelly: …when the body is already there and the words come in really simple the body starts to believe “I am light”. So that came from both trainings.
Marisa: Yeah, that is so beautiful. That's the power of, of the voice. And that's what this episode too is about. It's it's just I think as music therapists, we know how powerful singing is.
Kelly: Yeah.
Marisa: We see it in a lot of our clinical experiences, whether it's through singing songs that that you write yourself, whether it's singing mantras or affirmations, um, whether it's singing songs that just honestly just feel great to sing the, the vibrations, you know, when you when you find a certain part of your voice that just feels really good that day. Um, there's so much, so much that I think singing can bring.
Um, and I think it's really wonderful to to talk about it in this space, which is also might be, you know, music educators or music therapists, music listeners, singers, anybody listening today.
And I'm curious too, I know you talk a lot about just the, the power of voice in your book. Um, and I'm curious if you could talk a little bit about that, too, and just if, if you'd be open to sharing, you know, that process of of starting the book and, you know, what that was like.
Kelly: Wow. Um, how did I start the book? I feel so long ago now. You know, it's really a funny thing. Uh, you put a book out and uh well, I did. I And it goes like out. It's not like singing a song to an audience and there's immediate feedback.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: It goes out in the ozones, you know, and literally I forget that I wrote a book, you know what I mean? Because I think, I mean, I still write copious notes after every session and I don't have to write notes for anybody but me.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: And I think it you can let it go…
Marisa: Mhm.
Kelly: When you write it down in black and white, when I write it down - let me say in first person- black and white, I can let it go…
Marisa: Mhm.
Kelly: And, but I'm guessing that's for writers also it's like okay I'm done. I said it, you know, enjoy it or not.
Marisa: Mhm. You know, actually that you say that I feel that way about some of the recent articles that I put out. Okay. Well, like that I published. I'm like, well, I did that. Like I that's my thought, my completed thought. And it was more there more for me honestly like..
Kelly: Yes.
Marisa: …my own thought process of just trying to get deeper into that topic whatever it was and..
Kelly: Yeah.
Marisa: …just it's my processing really. At least in my experience and that just happens to be out and into the world which is also still a weird feeling too.
Kelly: It's pretty cool.
Marisa: I’m just, you know it's that finished thought. It's that deeper processing like you said, of just for for us, for us to really to take it all in and to kind of understand what's…what's really happening there because there's always so many layers I think in practice and with the voice I imagine it's very similar. There's so many layers to the experience itself.
Kelly: Yeah, I can tell you, Marisa, in case somebody wants to write a book. I think I tried to start two or three years earlier and it was, I just couldn't do it. And then I was ready and I called Dr. Bruscia and he said, "You need to work with Demi Stevens who now owns Barcelona."
She’s wonderful. She calls herself a book coach and she was like, she had writing techniques and she would give me deadlines and that's how the book happened because somebody was holding my hand. Yeah.
Marisa: The support. Yeah.
Kelly: But on that note with clients, you know, music therapy or music psychotherapy when we are born, our first expression of self, is the voice.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: It goes so deep. It goes so deep.
Marisa: Mhm.
Kelly: And um most of the time, people kind of know but they don't know and I know, and I don't have to we just we can work in code.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: Uh and um because it's so powerful, it's also really scary for people. It's again a…
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: …double-edged sword of um you know, forgive that metaphor, but um of um very intimate and um and that's kind of a problem.
Marisa: Mhm.
Kelly: So, it's really scary for people. They've gotten I can get into the psychology a little bit…
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: You know and these are not any, um uh you know, mind changing concepts. We all know these things, you know, uh we grow up, we even with the kindest parents in the world, you know, sometimes we're just too loud and you know, we hear “stop that”, you know, around our vocal expression. Um
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: I raised one child and I can tell you, did I want to stifle her vocal expression? No. Was it really hard sometimes not to? Yes.
So, you know, the kinder messages are occasional “stop that” or “use your inside voice” or you know, when you're expressing joy or anger is a big one.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: You know, we need to have we need to go through the terrible twos…
Marisa: Mhm.
Kelly: …because we're developing willpower.
Marisa: Mhm.
Kelly: and um so, you know, and then there's not so helpful messages like uh “boys don't cry”.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: Um, you know, I don't know if you hear “girls don't get angry”, but um the don't cry one. Um, you know, uh, trying to think what else. Oh, and then when we get older, definitely men keep hearing, you know, they're really taught by that time what you're allowed to connect to and express vocally and what you're not. “You got to be tough”.
Marisa: We have a phrase in Spanish they say ”calladita te ves mas bonita”. It’s like, “You're more beautiful when you're quiet”, “you look more beautiful when you’re quiet”. That's the, I guess the translation and that's something, I remember telling my mom I was re-doing, I was reading a lot of Chicano books and stuff at the time and and I told my mom that one and I said hey they talked about this in the book and she's like “I've never heard that but I felt that. I’ve felt that before”.
Kelly: I'm now finally at 67, I feel like I know something. I feel like I know something. And now I'm aware that I'm not supposed to. I'm not supposed to. I won't say globally. I mean that that's so unfair because there's beautiful people who listen but…
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: …socially, it causes discomfort when I have an intelligent opinion.
Marisa: Mhm.
Kelly: So all those messages, and then I ask someone to sing and all that all that is in the way. They want to so much.
Marisa: Mhm.
Kelly: Um, I run one group a week at Foxchase Cancer Center. It's a, it's a music wellness group for outpatients and occasionally an impatient comes down, and this new person walked in and she said, "I don't sing." And I have like four steady people. And I said, "That's okay. We'll sing for you. What's your favorite song?”
And it was um Tom Petty's “I Won't Back Down”. And we went into it and you know, we started singing for each person what you're not going to back down from.
Marisa: I love it.
Kelly: it's so, like it really we wouldn't want to perform it anywhere. But every time we hit each person, they're beaming from ear to ear because we're singing about their life.
Marisa: It's empowering.
Kelly: Yeah.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: Yeah. “We're with you. Don't back down.” You know, and by the end she was singing.
Marisa: You got her.
Kelly: They want to so much. They want to so much.
Marisa: It's such a intimate thing, singing, because you know I've heard a lot about I, you know, I'm an instrumentalist first. I was a violist growing up and I always played instruments, piano or, you know, guitar. I was always in different lessons or I never really had singing experience until I actually got into the music. I was terrified to sing in front of people for a long time you know and then once I started they couldn't get me to stop. But kind of like that woman..
Kelly: Yay! See! You got through the resistance.
Marisa: It took a lot and it really got me thinking kind of early on in my clinical work about, you know, when you play an instrument, it's still something apart from you that you're still expressing yourself through. Absolutely. When I was growing up playing the viola, you know, when we're still like scratch, scratch, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, you know, fifth graders playing hot, you know, hot cross buns, and my dad would always come into the room and say, "Just just sing, Marisa. Just sing through the instrument."
And I'm like, "I'm not there yet, Dad. I'm trying to play like Twinkle, Twinkle. I'm just not I don't even know where my notes go yet”
But he'd always say that, "Sing through the instrument. Just sing through your instrument." And you know, it's so much as much as you can express. Obviously, there's such good musicians out there that they really do sing through their instrument. I think it's such a intimate thing to have your instrument inside of you. And to actually have it be a a part of your body and um, the expression and the identity that that that connects with.
Kelly: Mhm.
Marisa: It's, it's a different a little bit of a different level to me when I think about, you know, playing instruments versus, you know, singing because even your body, you know, when I hold my viola, my chin, I can feel the the resonance, but it's kind of like when you're humming or, you know, when you're doing toning or anything like that, you, you really feel it inside almost like a sinking bowl inside of you. You feel it. It's very intimate.
Kelly: It it really is.
Marisa: Very intimate.
Kelly: Yeah, it is.
Marisa: You can't hide when you're singing. Not really. The way, you know, I can hide behind my bow or, you know, hide behind, you know, a pick or, you know, this is just me and it's just this is just you. That's it. This is who you are in that moment when you're singing.
Kelly: You’re not kidding. Yeah, you're not kidding. I actually did make initially more of my living singing than doing music therapy. That started in 81 before I got out of school. And that was just a fluke. Again, a professor, Peter Simkins, heard a friend and I singing in a practice room and and got us an audition some place. And, um, I was, I really struggled with performance anxiety a long time.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: but I I liked working three days a week as a music therapist and it was paying bills.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: So, and in Philly, you could at that time you could do like, you get an agent, they'd put you um, a month different hotels and
Marisa: Mhm.
Kelly: you'd do six nights a week.
Marisa: Wow.
Kelly: Yeah, that was a heyday.
Marisa: Wow.
Kelly: Um and the party bands um had 150 to 170 parties a year.
Marisa: Wow, that's a lot of work.
Kelly: So I was making a lot more singing. Yeah.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: but yes, uh you know, I was classical flute and you, you sit in the band, you know, with your head tilted over like you don't even sit up straight and…
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: there's 20 other flute players and it's such anonymous m music making.
Marisa: Mhm.
Kelly: It's just joyful in that way.
Marisa: Oh yeah.
Kelly: And when I had to stand up there with just a microphone. Wow.
Marisa: Mhm.
Kelly: It was so uncomfortable.
Marisa: Mhm. You're kind of exposed in a way.
Kelly: Well, your body is the instrument. Um, I used to be aware of like, I would turn around and the piano player was, you know, staring at the music, you know, and the drummer had like a tank to protect him.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: And ,and people look at the singer, they look at your face, your body, they watch your gestures. Um, it was not anonymous anymore.
Marisa: Yeah. You're front and center.
Kelly: Yeah. So, it took me a long time and I still struggled much of the time and then that's part of the reason I went into vocal psychotherapy. You know, there were um if I could put it in a a not so deep way…uh, I grew up in Pennsylvania Dutch country, living in Pennsylvania, and German people are really good at stuffing.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: So, I I really needed to go and explore emotions through my voice while somebody who was unconditionally accepting was listening and singing with me.
Marisa: Mhm.
Kelly: Um, so that because you know, especially when I got into jazz, like the blues is, oh my goodness, jazz is so full of um, you know, there's some darkness in jazz.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: I mean, that was my therapy, too. So, it really brought everything at that point. I think it was vocal psychotherapy, um, you know I want to say and I want to say Austin vocal psychotherapy because she's so amazing person, um that kind of started to pull all my selves together.
Marisa: Mhm.
Kelly: My music therapy self, my singer self, you know, my um, vocal psychotherapy self. It just all came together.
Marisa: That's amazing. I wonder, um, I wonder like what are some of the experiences you've had doing vocal psychotherapy with the clients that you work with. What are some of the responses that they have to that experience?
Kelly: Oh, I got goosebumps. Um, there's ones I can share because I have permission. Uh, they're in the book. um everybody just like GIM, people go at different levels and it's so okay, like I've been doing it 25 years and, I think the experience that I learned is, everything's okay you know, it's okay there's no agenda.
I don't need you to do free associative singing. I don't need that. You know, let's sing a song, um, and it's still really deep and powerful.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: Um, but the responses because I opened my practice and I didn't have any specific focus. Um, but to this day, I guess because a voice who comes in are often times people with complex trauma.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: you know, whose voices were stifled for many different reasons as kids and um, and so you know, pretty much a large percentage of the time people come in you know tense not light, sometimes in trauma and they sing and it they're able to, through the vibrations in their body ‘cause you know of course Vanderok we now know that that to get to the heart of the trauma it's nonverbal, ‘cause the prefrontal in trauma, the prefrontal amygdala starts shooting off fight or flight hormones
Marisa: Mhm.
Kelly: And that shuts down the prefrontal cortex. And so the trauma is not stored in words, it's stored in the body. And so, you know, a person goes in, uh, “it's okay, you'll be okay”. Uh, “that's not going to happen.” That doesn't work.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: And they want to tell themselves that, but it doesn't work. So we get it can even be five minutes of singing and with the vibrations with the inhaling and exhaling, you know, the prolonged exhale, heart rate slows down, blood pressure lowers the body starts to believe, “oh my goodness maybe I can actually find a safe place in my body”, and from those vibrations, and um the breathing, uh it shifts it. They find a nonverbal place in that moment, you know, not it the work is expanding that out into life. But for some people, that's our whole entire work is finding a safe place in the body.
Marisa: Mhm.
Kelly: And it's huge. It's huge.
Marisa: Mmm. The power of music, it really affects us.
Kelly: The power of music.
Marisa: It's so many levels. It goes back to that levels like, you know, from earlier. This just, it hits us on so many levels in so many ways. The verbal, the non-verbal, like you said, the emotional, the social, the past experiences. Like I feel like when we make music in any way, but I mean today specifically, you know, we're talking about singing, but it really it it encaptures like so much and it just holds everything all at the same time in a way that a lot of other, you know, experiences might not be able to. And that's, that's just the, to speak to the power of music.
Kelly: Mhm.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: Yeah. Very much. Yeah. I mean, I had people come who are drummers and that's cool, you know, but my way is singing and a lot of other people's ways are singing too, to connect. Um, you know, but again I mean drumming, it's same you know you can really connect to that power like…
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: no other way, you can hit that thing and you won't hurt its feelings.
Marisa: Yeah. There's strength in in in the rhythm.
Kelly: Yeah.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: So, I'm not really a string player, Marisa, but it's so beautiful, you now, it's like viola is like singing. Mmm.
Marisa: Mhm. It's kind of warm. I always liked it growing up because I felt like it was so warm. Um and its timbre. I love the violin, but there was something about the viola that always really really spoke to me. It's that in between. It's not quite a cello, but it's not quite a (violin). It's that little middle. And and they all all instruments I think have their their benefits, which is why as music therapists, I think we're so fortunate to be trained to use so many instruments. We have so many tools.
Kelly: Mhm.
Marisa: Um I'm curious if you would share just for our listeners to um specifically with voice, what what are some of the goals? What what does that look like goal-wise for the clients that you work with?
Kelly: Well, I I think for me, and I'm really thinking too, I don't want to speak for her, but based on her book, um, Dr. Austin, that it's healing trauma. you know, it's just that's the umbrella. And and then underneath that, number one is safety.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: And you know, I'll say early on with GIM, um, one time, I tried to make somebody go deeper and, uh, you know, I scared them, you know, and that's that place that the music can be harm.
Marisa: Mhm.
Kelly: And um, I actually did a qualitative research on it. Um I did Dr. Bruscia’s re-imaging because it bothered me so much and um, the you know, I came back with the information of really being able to feel my counter transference in my body and that was that was, for my masters I did that, you know, I graduated 2000. To this day when I get that feeling so, you know, take a deep breath, sit back, just listen because you're counter-transferring.
Marisa: Mhm.
Kelly: So, that goal of safety, again, I know I said it before, it is to me that could be the whole entire time we're together. So, that's number one under healing trauma. Um and then I guess it's you know, connecting to often times it's not uncovering um memories, the memories are there, it's uncovering emotions and experiences and finally, um you know, expressing them and that can be talking, that can be um anything with the voice. One client I had, uh she's in the book. She had very few words. I mean sometimes we would spend a half an hour with her singing “I'm here” to herself.
So expressing doesn't have to take any shape or form. You know it doesn't have to be um Khalil Gibran poetry. But then, I wrote down these goals that I think come from, you know, underneath the umbrella heading of um, and I and I want to say healing trauma because now at this stage of my life, I've learned that it's a lifelong pursuit.
Marisa: Mhm.
Kelly: So I put increased self-expression. Um shift negative self-talk to kinder self-talk. So, you know, the words that get sung hopefully eventually they will, they will echo they will be audiated and can replace, you know, negative thoughts about self through singing. You can increase assertiveness so that like if we sing together anger, or the blues, or you know even just a silly angry song. Um maybe the person's chances of at the checkout line saying, "Hey, you rang that up twice." You know, maybe they increase because they have felt, um, expressing boundaries when they sing the blues through their voice.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: Uh, give voice to suppressed emotions, give voice to trauma in past experiences. Um, find a sense of safety through vocal entrainment. Find a safe connection with another human being. Yeah.
Marisa: Ooo. Wow.
Kelly: And then, you know, some people just come to help find solutions for current life situations and relationships. I said just. I didn't mean that. That's it's such great work.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: Or to reduce stress and anxiety.
Marisa: Yeah. It doesn't always have to be so heavy, you know, each session. Yeah. It's there's the variety in in what somebody needs that day or, you know, every client is going to be so different in their needs.
Kelly: Oh, sometimes we just get silly.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: you know.
Marisa: And that's valuable in so many ways, too.
Kelly: Yeah, I I think it's Winnott. Um, and I forgive me if I'm um restating him incorrectly, but I I think he said that it's in the playing together where people really are doing some great healing.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: Yeah.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: So that and I guess the other thought I had had earlier is um, you know, safe connection with human being. Uh, just about everybody on this green earth I would imagine has experienced hurt from another human being.
Marisa: Mhm.
Kelly: And then if you're talking complex trauma, the hurt is deeper and more complicated. And um so I mean, I've literally had clients say, "Kelly, I don't trust you." And I'm like, "I don't blame you. You don't you don't know me."
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: But they trust the music. The music has never hurt them. And I'm a human being and human beings have hurt them.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: So survival is not trusting me.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: So the music is a bridge.
Marisa: Wow, that's so powerful. I'm taking that one in for a minute.
Kelly: I'm getting goosebumps from your…
Marisa: Yeah. What does that look like intervention-wise then? So, I know we've talked a little bit about, you know, the training which is needed. So, I know music therapists listening, they'll they're going to understand where we're coming from in that. Um, but for anybody else, you know, that that's not as familiar with the process of becoming a music therapist, as you may have gathered in listening to some of these goals about safety and other things, this is where our training becomes really important.
Kelly: Right.
Marisa: and talking about, you know, we're talking about trauma, we're talking about safety, we're talking about painful lived experiences. Um, and I've, I've said this before, I think in other episodes, but we think of music sometimes as kind of like a container and when you're not trained to work with that container can open up some stuff that, that can be really harmful, like you mentioned. Um, and so I'm curious then, you know, from the perspective of, of somebody with this training, what do those interventions look like to be able to facilitate those types of goals for your clients?
Kelly: Do you mean the the the uh vocal psychotherapy model. Do you want those interventions?
Marisa: yeah, those would be great. Or even any other interventions um that you mention in your book. I know you talk about a lot of different things like chanting that you've mentioned. And I know you talk a little bit about toning, um anything that you feel like you you'd like to share with us about, you know, what what does it look like now in the session?
Kelly: So vocal psychotherapy, the training, includes all those things. It’s breathing exercises, toning, body sounds and natural sounds, chanting, and singing songs.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: It includes all that. You know, uh when I go when I went into GIM training and vocal center therapy, you know, as a newbie, you can think that, you know, it has to be this method all the time and it has to be deep. And that's not true. You know, um, Diane corroborated herself. Singing songs is vocal psychotherapy. And you know, I mean, especially if you're singing a song to your three-year-old self.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: Um, but also she, she corroborated that talking is, you know, when you're moving back and forth from music to talking, that's still that's vocal expression and that counts.
So, it's all those things. Um, and then the vocal holding techniques are using two chords. These are Diane's specific trademarks. Two chords and it's just on syllables and vowels and the two chords create this stable, consistent, you know often times to me it feels, I mean, they're called holding chords holding techniques, and it feels like in some kind of way, I'm holding the person.
You know, the back and forth. It feels, you know, just comfort and that can take, that can be every week for a long time, holding chords, um because you're improvising, you know, within the chords and that's vulnerable and exploration of the voice and the self. Um, but it it's great for facilitating uh a a safe client therapist relationship, but because it's syllables that can also facilitate regression. Um, and it's it's really in, it's really intimate. It again, it often feels like a parent-child dynamic which is only safe because the music is doing the holding.
Marisa: Yeah. I almost imagine when you said going from to one chord to the next, back and forth, I almost imagine being rocked almost like side to side.
Kelly: Well, and you know, music can do that. I mean, like, think of like a lullaby.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: It's amazing. Um so and within that, within the improvising on no words, you can do um unison's are for like if we sing in unison it's for grounding, you know, and doubling, and it's doubling can be every single session because that person has not had that in their lives.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: Doubling feels like I am standing beside you and we are expressing this to the world.
Marisa: Mhm. together. Mhm.
Kelly: and then also harmonies and that's a really cool um psychodynamic concept because that that is akin to, um, individuating. So they when they they feel strong enough to separate and and hear themselves separate from the other note, you know, it's it's just deep.
Marisa: Yeah. Almost like your own identity, when you have a melody and then a harmony. You have your own identity within the the singing.
Kelly: Yes. Yes because of that harmony note, you can almost hear yourself a little more.
Marisa: Mhm.
Kelly: And um it calls upon the person to experience themselves.
Marisa: Yeah. As their own, almost like as their own person too, right? Their own sense of self. This is my part so to say.
Kelly: Yeah, that's great Marisa. So, this is my part. Yeah.
Marisa: Yeah,
Kelly: I like this note.
Marisa: Mhm. There's almost like strength in that. Um, a lot of empowerment I imagine in in feeling that or can be maybe not always but there can be.
Kelly: Yeah. Yeah. Well, a lot of singing, expressing is it helps with empowerment, you know, “I'm allowed to say this.”
Marisa: Mhm.
Kelly: Yeah. And that, you know, that leads to the things that are so hard to hear about abuse…
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: um and learning not to express to survive. So to let the voice out on a syllable, you know, it's so courageous.
Marisa: Yeah. Yeah.
Kelly: Yeah.
Marisa: Singing just it brings so much and one thing I will say for the listeners because one thing we do do for every episode is we'll create um a blog post with all the links. And so I'm gonna, for for anybody interested in learning more about this and reading um some more examples of these interventions, Kelly has a a chapter in her book that's uh I think I have it here.
Oh yeah, chapter 21. And it says the toolbox. And so it also lists a lot of these that she's talking about and and goes into more detail about you know. I'll read off a couple of these for anybody curious. You mentioned, you know, call and response. You mentioned chants and dialogues and dynamics, tempo, um, one-word phrases, listening, lyric writing, sing alongs, singing in imagery, singing in mandalas, singing for entrainment, singing in harmony, singing the silly songs, which I know you talked about as well. Um, singing in unison, um, songwriting, toning, vocal exercises, and vocal improv. It's such a big scope there. So much so many tools in that tool box. It's amazing.
Kelly: Yes. Yeah. And I want to give credit to Elizabeth Schwarz, um the functional voice book she wrote. I felt regret that I didn't put that in the book. it. I took toolbox directly from her book, you know, and I I did message her and say, "Hey," you know, and she's like, "That's okay." I mean, that was her great idea, you know.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: I mean, here we are. We're walking into a session and it's like you have this leather pouch here and you're pulling out your music tools.
Marisa: Yeah. Yeah. No, I love that. That's what it feels like sometimes as a as a music therapist. It's like, well, what do we need right now? Let me pull that one out.
Kelly: Yes.
Marisa: Let me use that one. What makes sense for this moment?
Kelly: Oh my goodness. The screwdriver isn’t working.
Marisa: Maybe we need the hammer.
Kelly: Maybe we need the crowbar.
Marisa: No, it's true. It's true. You never know. You never know.
*both laugh *
That's where that flexibility comes in. And it's just like so cool to see and to hear you talk about the interventions and also you know, what you shared about, just the goals like what are you working on that day? Are you working on stress? Are you working on safety? Are you working on emotional regulation? Are you working on pain? You know what what is the goal today? Communicating? Is it more connecting with the self? Is it more connecting with others?
There's so much flexibility in in voice. I've learned from, you know, your book and then also our conversation today. It's, there's so much there's so much. for anybody interested and I know I've personally talked to um you know several music therapists or students even you know we have interns that come and go and um, a lot of them that come in as voice majors um, because in music therapy you know, you you come in with a primary instrument, um and for for a lot of for a lot of people it's voice, um among other you know instruments, and I want them to know too for any of them listening that this is an option and a branch of music therapy that is available and there's so many resources and trainings that are out there.
If this is if you feel like your work resonates more or at the moment with with voice there, there's a lot out there. You really can dive deep into the world of of singing in music therapy.
Kelly: Yeah. Um Diane has long distance trainings now.
Marisa: Oh, that's awesome.
Kelly: Yeah.
Marisa: That's awesome.
Kelly: Yep. So I don't know it it's I think they meet, I don't want to say but maybe once a year, and then the rest is on Zoom like supervision and personal work.
Marisa: I'll put a link. We'll put a link to anything we talked about today as part of that blog post, just for anybody that might be interested. And um we'll have you know the transcript there as well. Um, but also the links to to Kelly's book to everything that we've shared and talked about today just as an extra resource if needed.
Kelly: Yeah. And also Lisa Sokolov embodied voice I know she does workshops.
Marisa: Okay, we can put a link to that too.
Kelly: Yeah, good.
Marisa: Just as an extra resource for anybody who might be interested. I always like to share, especially for music therapists too, you know, that these are out there. It’s not always talked about in undergrad. There’s not always the time to talk about, you know, those specific models, but they are there. They are out there. And they’re available.
Kelly: I I want to go back over the other method if that's okay with you Marisa.
Marisa: Oh, yeah, please, please go ahead.
Kelly: The second method of Diane's is, so there's holding chords along with all the other things I mentioned, chant songs, etc. Then there's free associative singing, and that's like Freud's free association. So, you know, once you get entrained, clients can start to sing around a memory…
Marisa: Oh wow.
Kelly: and at that point to me, the therapist's job, it it again, it feels akin to being a GIM guide.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: You ask questions, you might say reflect back and say something with a little bit of guidance toward, you know, a goal. Um, you change, I change the timbre of my voice according to what the client's words are. Um, because I feel like if they're singing, especially singing something angry, I go there first with my tone. Um because that's hard. So I want to express I want to model “it's okay”. “It's okay to sing angry and sad also”. Um, and I tend to go to um soothing and compassion first in my voice because that's so hard for people to find for themselves.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: So that's free associative singing. And um the chords also change according to, you know, if if you're getting into like a more intense, you can add um dissonance in the chords. Even though the chords stay the same, you can change the voicings.
Marisa: So you're improvising based on their improvisation.
Kelly: Yes.
Marisa: Okay. So they're saying anything that comes to mind.
Kelly: Yeah.
Marisa: The client says anything…
Kelly: Yes.
Marisa: …related to a specific topic.
Kelly: Yes. And you I mean, you can sing uh, you know, I don't like to scare people like nobody has to do this. You can sing to your abuser, after you've built up tons of safety, you
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: like not right away for sure and maybe not at all. Um, you can sing to a loving relative who has passed and you know that kind of singing is oftentimes singing and crying. It's beautiful. It's a beautiful kind of singing. Oh my goodness. It's somebody once said, "Billy Holiday's voice is like her tears." So, it's that kind of singing. It's very expressive.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: It crackles and it falters and it's just gorgeous.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: Um, so then yeah, you can change the chords and uh again like add suspensions if it's intense. When it moves to soothing, you can move up higher in the keyboard and arpeggiate, you know. So, the chords are pretty much the same. I might occasionally move from minor to major.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: So, there's this iso going on, too.
Marisa: I imagine it takes some a lot of musical skill to do this type of work because you have to be real comfortable improvising. I would think as a therapist to be able to follow the client and guide them in that way.
And then also you're mentioning the piano. So, I'm trying to imagine the session and you seated at the piano and the client is kind of just saying anything that comes to mind openly, and you have to be prepared to just kind of jump right in and support them and kind of musically hold their hand so to speak, you know, as they allow themselves to be so vulnerable. There's there's so much on both sides that vulnerability of musically.
Kelly: Yes.
Marisa: You're really there together.
Kelly: Yes. Marisa, I still get nervous every single session. And um I'm old enough now that I know that that's that's okay.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: You know, it's natural because I don't know where we're going.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: and it feels like I'm paying attention, you know? So, it's it's part of my job is is not deciding where we're going.
Marisa: Mhm.
Kelly: and allowing that scary unknown because I mean they they feel scared.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: Nobody wants to be in therapy, Marisa.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: We, we all want to be done.
Marisa: Mhm.
Kelly: So, it's only fair that I feel scared, too. But, but that I model, oh, come on, we're going to do this. It's going to be okay. You know, so that's another part of the relationship dynamic is that we're both walking through fear every single time and doing it anyway.
Marisa: Yeah. Just kind of jumping off the deep end, the deep end together. I don't know where we're going to end up, but we're going. Like they say in GIM, I I hear Dr. Z's voice in moments like this. The only way out is through
Kelly: Yeah. Yeah. It's true. Um and and also I I really I mean my path was just so, I was just so lucky. My path feels like one big improvisation because the GIM you have to have a conversation and you have to write everything down, and be aware of the music and be aware of their body. And that just like flowed right into being able to sing with somebody and have a conversation.
Marisa: Yeah, that reminds me too of um in one of the episodes we did with with Dr. Aigen he talked about those Nordoff-Robin principles and um the music centered and one of the things he mentioned in that article and then we talked about was the musical development as self-development and I imagine it's the same or very similar process in singing as you are discovering your voice, or at least exploring your voice, there's that parallel process of you emotionally and you as a person also kind of following you know I imagine it together the the journey um of your voice and then of you and who you are at the same time.
Kelly: Oh my goodness, Marisa. I was I'm going to say this lovingly. I was such a space cadet in high school. You know, that was my survival. You know, now I look back and I'm like, "Oh, well, good. I'm glad I did that." Um, but I had no idea. My and when my dad said, "What do you want to go to school for?" I was like shocked, you know, shocked. He was like a brickmason. None of them went to school. Like, what? What's this topic now? And I said, "Dad, the only thing I know how to do is music."
And he said, "Do you want to teach?" I said, "No." Because I hated school. He said, "Do you want to perform?" I said, "No." Because I was so shy. And I said, "Isn't there anything else I can do in music?" And he said, "Let me ask your piano teacher."
And he came back and he said, "There's this thing. It's called music therapy. And like bells went off in my head, you know.
Marisa: You’re like, “that’s it, that’s the one”
Kelly: Yes, although sometimes along the way it was not it. So I do want to like keep communicating that just because you find it doesn't mean it's um lavender sparkle, you know.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: It asks a lot of the therapist. So when I was kind of, you know, looking at my notes for you, you know, I, as this sentence came that at that point in my life, I just had no idea that all this time later, I would still be learning and growing in music therapy. I just feel so lucky that this thing found me because Yeah, I would because I was wandering, Marisa!
Marisa: There have been moments!
Kelly: Thank goodness!
Marisa: Yeah. You know, I like I said earlier and I'll say it again, too. I don't think you're alone in that. You know, I think a lot of us in the field feel that at some point. Um, and the more we talk about it, the more awareness we bring to it and just saying that that's okay. It's okay to feel that.
Kelly: That's why I share it. Um, I know disclosing is controversial, but I have a lot of music therapists and um, I'm careful, but they like when I share things like that, they say that really helps them so much.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: So, that's important to tell the the nitty-gritty as well as the powerful stuff.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: Yeah.
Marisa: It's a lot. It's a lot to hold um for one person and and even today we're talking about, you know, experiences in in one session or with one client. Um and if you're doing this full-time, you know, you often have several clients. So, you're holding all these spaces together in one day, you know, um and then the week and then the year and you know,
Kelly: Yeah,
Marisa: it does it it can come a lot. Um it really can it's heavy. It's heavy. Um but..
Kelly: it is.
Marisa: …it can also be so rewarding with with the right resources and the right support and the right teachers like you mentioned. Um, just…
Kelly: Yeah,
Marisa: …having the right people there to to keep you inspired and supported and and give you what you need to to recharge and and then come back to take it back to others.
Kelly: That's so beautifully put. Yeah. Yes.
Marisa: I'm very grateful for having a lot of good people in the field like you and others that have just really um in those moments I'm like :this is it. That that's what I needed. I need this person or their thoughts or their experiences to kinda of relight that fire so to speak”
Kelly: And I think it's getting better. I when I got out in ' 82 undergrad, there was like you could work in a nursing home, you could work in a psych facility. It was so limited.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: Um, I got a job at uh with the Bucks County Intermediate Unit um special projects division where I had um done my internship, but that was pretty rare job, you know. Thank Thank you, Jimmy Carter. No child left behind.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: Yeah. Uh so I think you know it looks Pennsylvania is trying again. Wonderful Madison Frank and Nicole Hannah. They are warriors. They've been going at this for years.
Marisa: the licensure?
Kelly: Yes.
Marisa: I saw that today and I’m so excited.
Kelly: on Monday. I can't go because I'm working, but I really wish I could. I mean, they are warriors. They are not stopping.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: So they they've they've spoke about some hospitals are ready to hire music therapists if we get licensure.
Marisa: That's amazing.
Kelly: So it we're moving you know it because it's so new. I think we all feel like it's at a snail's pace…
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: …but we are moving. Better days better days are coming.
Marisa: absolutely. And I'm I'm so grateful also for, you know, conversations like this um to be able to just share and talk about it and build community um for all of us. Yeah.
Kelly: Yeah.
Marisa: Collectively.
Kelly: Yeah. Thank you, Marisa.
Marisa: Yeah. On that note too, I I guess I have one more question for you um to kind of close today if that's okay.
Kelly: Sure.
Marisa: And it's just, you know, what would you what would you say to somebody who's maybe starting to connect to their voice and starting that journey? Um, what can someone do kind of to get started along that process?
Kelly: It's scary. It's scary. I I almost want to say please forgive me because I'm such a mother model, you know, and I feel like I'm old enough I'm allowed to say it's scary, honey.
It's scary. And you have a right to use your voice. So find whatever works. Um, I wrote a bunch of things down here. There's experiential exercises in my book. Um, humming, playing with syllables, uh, singing your favorite song and then finding the favorite part of that song and turning off the song and singing that part for 60 seconds by yourself. Um, Riann is a singer who sang in Bobby McFaren's Voice Estestra and she has an album out called Flight and there's incredibly fun, you know, um, call and response and uh, where you make silly sounds and angry sounds and pretty sounds.
Um, you can take songs and sing them in different keys and notice how you feel in each key.
Uh, you can record your voice and sing in unison or harmony or riff. You can practice improvisation over two chords alone or with a friend. Um, the blues is great. The blues is great. Amy Abbersold has a lot of music minus one blues grooves. Um, Lisa Sokolov's book has really fun exercises in it. Um, then I say you can imitate a baby or animals.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: You know like, in the privacy of your own room.
Marisa: Yeah. Yeah.
Kelly: And uh and also there's like tons of free online blues grooves in in different you know tempos different tempe and different um keys, so but it's like find what feels, often times I think in the beginning people like to sing in unison with someone. So the recording um my hero/heroine is Bonnie Raitt. She’s older than me and she's still singing her butt off. Um she had the courage to express things I needed to learn how to express so I could sing along with her the rest of my life and be satisfied. But, you know, find what feels safe.
Marisa: Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing all of your wisdom today.
Kelly: Oh, you're so welcome.
Marisa: It's so nice to to hear what you have to say and to hear about your journey and and your thoughts um in this little niche area of music therapy.
Kelly: Yeah.
Marisa: Yeah.
Kelly: our own little corner in our own little room.
Marisa: No, it's true. It's a small, you know, it's growing. It's a growing field. Um, but relatively small still compared to, um, you know, OT's or PTs, um, on those counselors, you know, those those fields. Um, and we're growing in numbers. Um, as we go every year, I think there's there's more and more of us. And it's just it's just so nice to to hear from from someone like you who's got so much experience and and so much that you've contributed to the to the field already.
Kelly: Oh, thank you, Marisa. I'm laughing because I'm thinking, you know, it's so hard to take compliments. I'm thinking, “yeah, but you're old”. It's so hard to take compliments.
*both laugh*
Marisa: It can be.
Kelly: Thank you, Marisa. Let me model.
Marisa: You’re welcome, Kelly. I love it.
Kelly: Yeah.
Marisa: Well for those of you listening, thank you for for being here with us um and listening to our conversation today. And um, as I mentioned earlier if you go to our website which is rgvmusictheapy.com/podcast, there will be a blog post um specifically for this episode with Kelly today and it will have the transcript and links to to anything we talked about today if you're interested. Um there will also be a poll on the episode.
So if you'd like to share a little bit about you know your thoughts from the episode. I think there's also a comment box and a voice memo if you wanted to send us anything about anything that came up for you or anything you'd like to share, your experiences, or any questions you may have for Kelly and um we'd be more than happy to to to look at them and and get to you if if there's a way to to get back to you. We we'll try. Um so thank you all for being here. Thank you Kelly again for your time and for your resources and your thoughts. Um, and we'll see you all for the next episode. Thank you so much.
